This evening, there was an interesting exchange of views with Executive Vice-President Frans Timmermans on the effects of the war in Ukraine on climate policies and on the European Green Deal.
There were some surprises.
Not so much from Commissioner Timmermans, who confirmed that Europe would accelerate climate actions, and would not shift on the level of ambition on the Green Deal.
The surprises were from those who embraced stranger action in terms of European Security across all main political groups.
I was struck by the passionate support for Green Renewable Energy from some sides of the chambers I’d never have expected.
The cross-party support for more climate and green action should not be ignored.
We will have to wait for tomorrow, Tuesday, to find out the details of what the Commission table.
I am curious to see if tomorrow the Commission withdraw the taxonomy delegated act on gas.
Otter ai transcript
Pascal Canfin 0:11
. So first we have to adopt the agenda because there is no objection, no specific chairs and announcements beyond the usual ones. So we can directly move to the exchange of views with executive vice president Frans Timmermans. Welcome Frans to this ENV meeting, on the effects of the war in Ukraine, on climate policies on the Green Deal, or energy security, on food prices, and so on, because as a reminder, you have under your umbrella, as executive VP for Green Deal, of course, climate but also energy, and agriculture. So when you look at all this impacts on the everyday life, on prices, on security, on supply, and so on, and on the investment choices, we that are ahead of us, you have a very important responsibility on that front with an S. So a lot of expectations tonight and very happy to give you the floor for the time you need. And then of course, the usual round of questions.
Frans Timmermans 1:41
Thank you very much, Chair, Honourable members. Our world has changed since 12 days now. Europe will never be the way it was before. Any illusions anyone might have had about the nature of Putin’s intentions, about how he sees the world. Things we could have known for many years, but we thought he might not act upon have now materialised. And this means that we will have to take a different look at how we organise ourselves, how we organise our collective security, how we strengthen our resilience, and how we strengthen our response. Because of course, today, our thoughts are with the people in Ukraine who was suffering in this unbearable war with acts of barbarism unleashed upon them, providing them with the illusion of safe corridors to Russian territory, of course, and then mining the safe corridors. I mean, if there’s no way you can take cynicism to a higher level than what the Russians are doing right now. So we need to find the most concrete possible expression of our solidarity with the suffering Ukrainian people. We need to respond to this challenge. Putin, if he’s not stopped, will continue until he has restored what he thinks is the rightful Russian Empire. And I’m afraid this is not limited to Ukraine. So I think I want to start on this because, as some of you know, I have been, I’ve lived in Russia, I’ve been following the country very closely for the last three decades. I have friends of Russia. I have friends in Ukraine. Like many of us here. There is no Russian who wants this war. And Ukrainians are forced into a conflict with people whom they regard as their brothers and sisters. This is Putin’s war. And it should be on him and on his cronies. And we have a huge responsibility and making sure he does not succeed. This will be this has to be and we’ll be his Waterloo. Now, in reaction to this, of course, the main task any public authority has is to fight for the security of our citizens. And that means looking again at our collective security arrangements, strengthening European security strengthening Transatlantic Ties. I want to refer to the historic introduction in the Bundestag by Chancellor Schultz Sunday a week ago, where he just recognised that we are in a completely new situation and responded to that. And the whole idea of what in German is called vandal door Candle has been abandoned. And we need to stand up for a value. This is an ideological confrontation with someone who despises us for our values, and at the same time fears us for our values, because there’s locked talk about NATO this NATO that, but he fears the EU more than he fears NATO because he knows his citizens want what we have, and not what he’s offering in the long run. Now, immediately moving, of course, to the subject, why I’m here. I think it would be a historic mistake to draw the conclusion from the security challenge and saying, this means the Green Deal and fit for 55 can go to the backburner. We had a bit of that two years ago with COVID. Also the some quarters the first reaction COVID. Now come back with your Green Deal in 10 years time, and soon, we discovered that the Green Deal offered some of the fundamental answers, we needed to respond to the challenge with that challenge that has been going into our economy, to the need to
make our economy more resilient and sustainable, and to use the opportunities of the digital revolution. And I would argue that we are in a comparable situation. The only way that we can not be put under pressure, because we are put in customer is to no longer be his customer for our essential energy resourcing. The only way to achieve that is to speed up our transition to renewable energy resource make our own energy is the best answer to do more in offshore wind to do more and in solar, to do more and hydrogen to do more and be biomethane. too, of course diversify also energy resourcing for the time being as long as we still need fossil fuel by signing contracts with outside parties to provide us with this energy. We also need to speed up investments in the built environment so that energy consumption is truly reduced. And therefore also energy bills of our citizens can be reduced. I believe this is of utmost importance that we understand that the Green Deal and fit 255 have not become less urgent, but arguably even more urgent, because of the challenge now thrown to us because we cannot be in a situation where we depend on Russian energy that would come with strings attached, as clearly it is now. So this transition needs to be sped up. We can do this, we will present plans tomorrow to you also to show how we can do this. So we need to make sure as I said that we diversify our resourcing as long as we need still fossil fuels that we speed up our transition to renewables that we provide for relief for our citizens that are suffering too much on the high energy prices that we ended up We also make sure that we will be ready for the next winter because this winter will will be okay. We’re lucky enough to have a mild winter, but you can’t bank on that. So for next year, we need to make sure that our reserves our stops are up to 80 or 90%. So that we can face that challenge and for that we will need also to diversify. So I believe that is important. Agriculture is another subject you mentioned it chair at the beginning. Please, please don’t believe in the illusion that helping food production that you would help food production by making it less sustainable by not opting for Farm to Fork strategies by not making it more resilient in terms of the natural environment and the food production. We need to reduce our dependency of potash coming from elsewhere including Russia and Zambia levels. So that we need we need to reduce the fertilisers we we need we need to reduce the pesticides we need etc, etc. So also here, I would argue that farm to fork is part of the answer and not part of the problem. And I’m more than willing to discuss this but I’m sure also other committees in this Parliament would want to discuss that. And then finally, I believe that if we make the right choices, in the days and months to come, we will overcome this challenge. We will be able to convince our citizens that Continuing opting for the the transition to renewables, continuing to opt for the Green Deal, and 55 is in their interest. But we’ll be convincing if this is perceived by citizens as fair to them. And therefore, I believe, making sure we address the issue of energy poverty by providing the instruments to our member states to do that, but also by developing European policies that will allow us to address the risk of energy poverty is an essential prerequisite not a an accompanying element of fit for 55, or the Green Deal, but an essential prerequisite to convince our citizens to go this path together.
And I believe that, because energy is such an essential element in our society, to heat our houses, to fuel our cars, to do all these things, to keep our society working, and sticking together, we need to keep that in mind. Because if we fail on this score, we will, we will create ourselves, the divisions in our society that Putin invested so much in over 20 years, and has now seen have gone to naught. Because all those he’s been all those who have been his best friends. And we know some of them also in this Parliament’s, now all of a sudden, very silent. But I would say you know, own it, own it, own what you’ve said, All these years, own it, because you are the ones who who did his bidding in creating divisions in our society, no more, we will stand united. But I repeat, we can only do that. If our citizens understand that we’re acting in their interest, and that we will make sure that nobody is left behind. Thank you.
Pascal Canfin 12:06
Thank you very much. For this strong words. And so we move now to the first round of since you have two minutes each, as there are many, many members willing to have the floor, please stick to the time allocated. So we start with Epp and Dr. Lisa.
Peter Liese 12:28
Thank you, Chair. And thank you, executive vice president. In fact, the situation is dramatic and put in aggression is a huge challenge for all of us. And I really think nothing is the same than two weeks ago. And I fully agree, fit 455 is the solution and not the problem. So to speed up renewables to speed up energy efficiency is important and urgent. And I’m very happy that the EPP Rapporteur for renewables put on the table last Thursday, his position to increase ambition from 40% to 45%. Personally, I think we should do the same with energy efficiency, increase our ambition. However, in short term, unfortunately, I think we need to make some compromises also as environmental politicians. You know, I was against any longer use of nuclear in Germany until two weeks ago. Now, I think let’s look at it for two, three years. It must be possible, I think it will be possible. I don’t think nuclear is a solution in the long term. Not at all, but for short term, maybe. And the same applies for coal. We are facing out our own coal. That’s a member states issue. But it should be put in perspective. And importing coal from Russia, let us stop food production. You are right. Imported fertilisers from Russia increase the problem. But there are other major elements of our policy where we may have to help farmers to reduce the food that we will not get from Ukraine or from Russia. So let’s all for our corner and let’s work together and let’s not to be afraid that put in stops any delivery, let’s be prepared. Also for the energy imports, we need to be prepared if he stops and we need to we need to be able also to put a lot of more pressure and the first thing that we all can do consume less immediately. every tonne of oil or gas or what you save is hurting put in and what you consume will finance the war. I think that we need to take into account Thank you very much.
Tiemo WÖLKEN 15:02
Executive Vice President, to my man sliver funds today speak in German escaped his total show momenta D historical moments, which change how we live, how we work together, and what we believed in the past. And this criminal attack from Putin, such a moment to respond to this war in the middle of Europe has to be a change in our energy policy, we have to free ourselves from this. Capitalism is born from English, coal, and then we’ve had millions of and it’s made millions of people us dependent on coal yet made a few people rich, we’re dependent on the resources that are in the hands of very few people. So we have to have a democratic zation of energy, we have to other otherwise, we see wars, of being funded by energy that’s has to belong to the past, we have to work together, we have to reduce our dependency on petroleum products and gas on coal, have to reduce our dependency on Putin’s energy sources, which finances wars. So we have to have, however, investments and gas and nucular can’t be sustainable, we have to rethink the taxonomy. And it’s also because atomic energy can be used as a goal in such a war. So we have to focus on renewable energy, we have to focus on increasing energy efficiency. And we have to see on every roof, a solar panel, and we have to reduce imports of oil from Russia, because that’s where Putin is earning his money. So my question to the Commission, as feasibility of having a reduction or stop of oil imports from Russia? And also what about this situation with reduction of imports of grain and the use of grain for GE, thank you very much.
Pascal Canfin 17:27
Thank you, we move to Nils TORVALDS for renew.
Nils TORVALDS 17:31
Thank you for Skoll, and thank you, Vice President, Tim Amasa. Being here when we spoke about energy. I think it was in NV November, you said that one of the most difficult parts of the whole transition is energy, because it’s so complicated. And now we are with that complicated issue. Slightly against the wall. There will be four we need from the Commission as soon as possible. First, what can be speeded up? And in which way? Because the ways are different. So it’s you don’t have one solution for gas and one solution for oil and one solution for for nuclear, you need and depending on the member state structure, you need different answers in all the cases to what kind of breaching solutions do we have? Do we need for how long time for one year some some cases for two years in some cases, probably in three years or four years in some cases, but we need to have a structure of how this going to be seen. Look. And as I said before, as the structures in the different member states are very different. And some of them are very dependent on Russia because of the the, the infrastructure built during Socialist time. So we need one size does that doesn’t fit everybody in this. And we need as concrete examples as possible from from the Commission. And just to add up in in the very beginning of all the countries in Europe. The longest border with Russia, is of course the Ukrainian 2000 2000 kilometre border. The second longest border is Finland. And we don’t have any backbone on NATO. And still we decided to send weapons to Ukraine. Thank you.
Pascal Canfin 19:38
Thank you, we move to sorry, we move to the greens and Bas EICKHOUTd
Bas EICKHOUT 19:44
Thank you very much. And first of all, thank you very much, Mr. Timmermans. Fans for for the strong words against what’s happening now. And I think you’re absolutely right that we are living in a new era after these two weeks. and that will indeed also have consequences for our policies for sure. And and I’m happy that you are also making very clear that this is another plea for the Green Deal targets to reduce our dependency of fossil imports. But But I would like to know a bit more concrete on on what we can expect there, because I’ve been looking into the impact assessments, again, off the federal 55 package, which is sometimes an interesting read, if you go back to the documents of July, especially on energy efficiency. If you look at all the ambitious elements in the impact assessment, the negative points were on administrative burden and subsidiarity whereas it was putting a lot of pluses on effectiveness. And I think that should now be the driving force of policies effectiveness, because the energy we do not use, we don’t need to import we don’t need to replace. And I think this is really for me, one of the key proponents that I hope we can see in tomorrow’s proposal, because the impact assessments are there. All the proposals the commission has calculated through but back then you were more going for the middle option, which is I am we can always do that. But I think now if we look at effectiveness, that should be our key driver. And I think that is indeed what with the impact assessment in hand could really already tomorrow, we could expect from the Commission kind of changes in the targets, both on efficiency and renewable. Because if I read the impact assessment on renewables, it was against the higher target of 40% was because it was overshooting the climate target. I don’t see the problem, and a lack of coherence with other instruments. I think that’s also not the biggest concern anymore. So this really drives us in looking differently at our analyses. And I’m very much curious on how you see that. Also, our analysis on a lot of the kind of gas as a transition, how will this change that narrative also within the Commission and its analysis, thank you very much.
Pascal Canfin 22:07
Thank you, we move to ID, Silvia SARDONE
Silvia SARDONE 22:12
razza placeholder, where I know cryin and the absurd war in Ukraine. It’s not just the humanitarian disaster, it’s also disaster for our energy crisis. The European Union has spent the last few years with obsession, and does last time on to do with issues such as plastics was during the past years, we have imported an awful lot of gas for from Russia, and we have filled in our quest for renewables no weather warning course. Every day Russia is paid half a billion for fossil fuels. Now, that’d be focusing on 100%. Renewables is a waste of time No, because we want to achieve it for several decades, renewable, so not a not an immediate solution. And we also like storage capacity for that isn’t much time, the Green Deal objectives will need to be looked at. Again, we need a new plan. We could focus more on renewables. But what about today? What about tomorrow? What about exorbitant bills for citizens? We need a proper policy here, which takes into account our citizens. For the more we have to stop thinking about ideas, which we can’t really achieve, but focus on the right energy mix, which will ensure that we have energy autonomy, we have to simplify the procedures for renewables. Moreover, you have said to the media with a certain amount of chutzpah that the that some kind of approach involving fossil fuels might be necessary. Don’t you think it’s time to rethink this? Thank you
Pascal Canfin 24:20
for ECR Alexandr VONDRA
Alexandr VONDRA 24:24
Thank you, you are a great speaker. And you are right the desert has changed. But then with the rest I think it’s not enough What are you thinking you know, we must seek more radical view is gun which we love, we are entering in an era of the rail Mac politic, because you know, I expect that we are not going to, to conquer Kremlin and to kill him. So we will have to coexist with Russia as it is and not with Russia as it as we would wish to We will have China, you know, we would have India, we would have a South Africa, or were abstaining in the General Assembly this week. So it’s no more about the values, it’s about the values at home. But we don’t have the partners. We don’t have partners for seabin Would you trust again, you know, with with the sebum certificate, what do you expect China would play the same game as us? No way. India, no way. So, look, we should abandon this carbon ideology, because the goal for us is to survive the winters, and not to speculate about a sea level rise by three centimetres in 2008. We need to survive next three winters, we will need to exploit the cold or the because we will not have gas. But you know, we are even not able to do this without gas in the next couple of winters. So we will need expensive gas from Qatar and other other sources. We we need to restructure ETS because the goal is not to make power at home because, you know, we are entering into an era of great inflation. Yes, security must be the guiding principle in in the Green Deal. I agree with you that the renewables would certainly help I would even agree with you that we should speed up you know, solar and wind system, but it’s not enough. Especially in winter, you need to compensate, you know, when there is no wind where there is no sun. You know, I would expect from the Commission, much more than just you know, speeding up speeding up what we are, the world has changed. But you know, we we change our mind to thank you.
Pascal Canfin 26:53
Thank you we move to the left, Petros KOKKALIS
Petros KOKKALIS 26:58
thank you President and thank you executive vice presidents at the room as well. So Vonda spoke on survival. And there is as we know, a brief but rapidly closing window to secure a Livable Future. The warning of the IPCC last week fortunately holds true for the humanitarian corridors for civilians that abandon their lives. And the cities which are bombed by Russia, with bombs for which we pay for, we pay over 660 million euros every day, which is set in billions a month. And this has to stop. And as we must not allow ourselves to be hosted this to Russia Superion aggression. We must neither allow Europeans to become hostages to speak in war profiteers in markets that are neither efficient nor free, but clearly broken. So as in the pandemic, our response has shown that we can shed the boost, we can move rapidly and in Union invest in our common future, in renewables in efficiency in smart grids, that will deliver jobs and results. Now, this is not the time to revive for sales. And there is no such thing as a short term for sale play. The Green Deal is above all a peace deal. It’s a weapon against aggression. It’s a weapon against climate catastrophe. It’s a weapon for freedom and democracy. It’s a weapon for development and massive wartime peace mobilisation to deliver effectiveness has been scolded. So, I would like to ask you more about your ideas about providing the idea of fairness, because this cannot be done only on the supply side, it has been done on the demand side. And we are not well in this carbon world. So I would like to hear more about how we’ll protect Social cohesion. How will protect our citizens in the in the first in the in the coming months. And and, and I would like to thank you for your commitment to the Green Deal. This is the only way forward.
Pascal Canfin 29:06
Thank you. And before giving you the floor, back Frans, Christian Busoi as the chair of ITRA committee.
Cristian-Silviu BUŞOI 29:13
Thank you so much, Pascal, for inviting me to take the floor. Thank you, executive vice president Timmermans. And also, thanks to the Commission in general, for the extensive exchange of views that the commission has is having with the parliament on Ukrainian crisis. We also had a discussion in the committee last week on energy aspects related to the Ukrainian word to the Russian invasion over Ukraine. And I should express the commitment of my colleagues who I represent here to find ways to support the fight of people for their land, for their security, and for peace within our respective roommates. We should not fall in the trap of the false dichotomy of Green Deal versus security of supply, not only for saving our planet but also to achieve a high degree of energy independence, we need to boost an energy mix formed by a majority of renewable zero low carbon sources. This is the way forward, we have a long term plan the Green Deal, let’s stick to it. On the other hand, of course, we need to take immediate measures to ensure that Russian gas is replaced by guests from other sources. There are immediate problem requiring immediate solutions, we need to increase our interconnections levels between member states, so the guests stored can flow where it’s really needed. We should also ensure that our guest talks are replaying replenished to ensure that next winter supply are ensured. And of course, we should stop allow it to operators from Russia or other unreliable countries to enter in the EU energy market, giving them possibilities to endanger our security of supply, we should strive to avoid replacing gas supplies by other sources with higher emissions. And of course, we need to support the force of and so he to carry out an emergency synchronisation of the power grid of Ukrainians with ours, and we should strive to increase reverse flow capacity towards the east. Finally, of course, we need to take a decision on the feet 455 package, we should continue not forget our long term objectives, but also to be flexible and on the medium term to take into account the economic situation that maybe will be worsened by this word. Thank you so much.
Pascal Canfin 31:37
Thank you for yours.
Frans Timmermans 31:39
Thank you very much. Of course, we will put parliament and council in a position to increase ambition if Parliament and council on the targets we’ve set. So this is a an answer to the question. Beta Luiza put and Timo as well as me. So we want to do that tomorrow to give parliament and council the opportunity to sort of tighten the screws on the energy transition issues on the targets we have set. I think this is an important thing we should be doing now, in terms of energy sourcing, and let me be very clear on this, I could understand that some member states who had in their planning, seen natural gas as a transitional energy carrier moving away from coal through natural gas to renewables, I could understand this at well wait a minute, natural gas, would that mean that we would be more dependent on Russia? Could we not skip that? I think it is not impossible to skip that if you if you have if you have a higher ambition, on your renewables targets, speed that up, then perhaps you can indeed with a small prolongation of coal and up with renewables earlier, and then the bottom line would be that you would do our climate a favour and reduce emissions and not increase. So in that context, I have said that, because of what’s now happening in Russia, there are no taboos in the choices member states can make, which does not discharge them from the legal responsibility to reach at least 55% emissions reduction in 2030, and a climate neutrality in 2050. But it is a sovereign choice of a member states to say okay, we’ll stick a bit longer with nuclear or we’ll stick a bit longer with coal. But we will compensate that by introducing renewables earlier so that we don’t have a negative impact on our emissions development. So that’s the context within which I said is have changed, things have really radically changed. I think we can present a plan tomorrow, I hope it at least, and I’m pretty confident we can that will substantially reduce our dependency on Russian gas already this year, and within years, will make us independent of the import of rushing. I think that’s possible. It’s not easy, but it’s feasible and I hope to be able to present that to you tomorrow. So, this is I think a collective effort that nobody would dispute. Things can be sped up also the quantity of LNG important can be can be increased. You know, there will be new LNG terminals. Some member states don’t want them others are now Germany has announced to others may also be happening. We need to improve our interconnectors, we need to do that there is still an interconnection in that energy field in Europe that we need to improve so that we back each other up when it isn’t necessary and that not not not a single member state, it gets in trouble. The question Neil’s as the staff have asked about bridging solutions for how long that that is a really crucial question and I tried to explain earlier, you know, the only way to reduce the bridging problem is by
speeding up the transfer to to renewables. Now, when I say renewables, there’s so much more we can do in rooftop rooftop solar than we’re doing that so much more that we could do there. And we will make some proposals for that. There’s also so much more we can do in improving the energy efficiency of buildings. And most of the recovery plans of the member states foresee in investment in that. And I believe we need to look also, when you look at solar panels, and you need refurbishing a building, we need to look at especially the buildings provided for people with lower incomes, I think that should be a top priority across the EU, we can also do much more in increasing the charging infrastructure along our roads, the car industry is moving at lightning speed towards electrifying their production. Alexander will like the fact that the most sold electric car in the Netherlands is a SCADA ENIAC. That’s the number one now. So you know, also the check car industry has a wonderful future in making electric cars. So these are things that we can do and then repower, you will look into all these issues. And I agree with Bob buss echoed we need to look at our analysis in a different way in light of where we are now. And that is what we’re putting actually tomorrow on the table. And of course, we know that school legislators will actually decide about turning the screws on increasing our ambitions, but we will certainly want to make a proposal in that area. Now. Let me let us I mean, it’s it’s it’s almost unnecessary to say it in this in this group. But I have to say it, because of what Mr. Donnelly said, the high energy prices are not a result of of the Green Deal. They have nothing very little to do with the Green Deal, the emissions trading system has very little to do with it. And by the way, the prices have gone down. This is an issue of international tensions. And it’s an issue of very shortage of supply in the market combined with a war that is the reason for the high prices. And, and and, frankly, I don’t feel I need to apologise, not to someone in whose party only recently it was sort of seen as very nice to wear T shirts with Mr. Putin’s face on it. Moving to what Alexander Vanga said about carbon ideology. I think I think it is fair to say that part of the adventurism that Putin is now engaged in, is also linked to the fact that Russia is one of the most unprepared countries. Russia is one of the most unprepared countries in terms of the energy transition that is coming. Most other energy producing nations are preparing for a post hydrocarbon world, they are not, they are not. And that is making the system very, very nervous indeed, on that, that country is suffering terribly from the climate crisis, terribly. The disappearance of permafrost has a devastating effect on the energy sector infrastructure in Russia. And I’m not even talking about the failed harvests and and the wildfires that they’ve been suffering. So, of course, we are faced with a new security challenge. But please, Alexander, don’t forget that the other challenge that we face, which is an existential challenge is the climate crisis. And if we don’t contain the rise of the temperature,
conflicts will flourish everywhere. And I think it’s simply who made an analysis that that over half or 60, or even more percent of the global conflicts today have a climate element in them. Whether it’s a shortage of water or filled harvest or unlivable temperatures, etc, etc. So, these crises are completely intertwined and we cannot neglect one, for the sake of tackling the other, we don’t have that luxury, or boy, I would love that luxury. But we don’t have it, we don’t have the luxury, we have a responsibility towards our citizens, to protect them now that we are threatened by putting, but we also have a responsibility towards our children and grandchildren to protect them and their future. And for that we need to continue with our climate policy. That’s not a carbon ideology. That’s not an anti carbon ideology, when we’re being scientific about this, those who refuse signs of being ideological about this. And finally, the issue of fairness petals is the crucial issue, which will determine whether we succeed or fail. The more I work on this, the more I understand that if we want to convince our citizens to be part of what is the most profound transition in 200 years, they have to see that there’s something in it for them. And as we see now in this, citizens are prepared to take a hit are prepared to sacrifice, but only if they see the benefits of that sacrifice for themselves for the children or grandchildren. And we still have a long way to go until we have convinced everyone after all these years of austerity, and after all these years of difficulty, socio economic difficulty, you know, I think of my own kids, the oldest now, the oldest now 35. They’ve went from crisis, the crisis in their adulthood. And we need to convince them that this is a transition that we will make in a fair way, I think this is the crucial element. Hence, our ideas about a climate Social Fund and other ways of compensating our citizens, which for which we will also put the instruments on the table tomorrow in our communication.
Pascal Canfin 41:53
Thank you. So I formally open the catch the eye, but there is also there is already a long list. So don’t rush. We we move to the we start with the second round and the catch the I will be the third one. We start with Chris, stop Buzek for one minute and please stick to the time allocated
Patrizia TOIA 42:19
to you. Grad ca should add gradual initially, thank you very much to Mr. Timmons for being known for what he said. And be brief, just a few comments, we have to do everything we can to reduce our dependence on Russian gas. And we have to implement measures in the short term which will have an immediate effect and which will allow us to ensure industrial continuity and praise, which are very dependent on gas. And that’s something which we need to bear in mind in our responses to this crisis, which while perhaps was foreseeable, but which is nonetheless extremely serious. We need to set out the pathway renewables, hydrogen, energy efficiency and so on. These are things perhaps which we haven’t been enough about the know is the opportunity to move forward. We also need to think about specific measures to have an effect on prices of energy or special measures for greater European solidarity to help people to tackle the differences that exist in different countries for example, when it comes to storage and hopefully that can be done more quickly. Now on the gas package, which involve a regulation and a directive on compulsory storage perhaps we have written to the relevant Commissioner that you make views clear on that thank you,
Pascal Canfin 44:25
first ones to be penalised. So we are back to Jessie Buzek if he’s available.
Jerzy BUZEK 44:37
Thank you very much. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. President, for your presence with us tonight. We all agree, we’re in quite a new era today. If I may 1 remark, of course, that we have to move forward with our Green Deal, as its main sense is a move away from the positives. Today and move away from Russia’s fossil fuels as soon as possible. We need a roadmap of that month by month, or year by year or an EU target for the fossil fuel supplies. diversification. I agree Russia is the biggest enemy of our Green Deal. But my second remark, I welcome your state, but it was the president with regard to call or yoga, there are no taboos. Today, there should be also no taboos on ETS market manipulation. We have to address it urgently by limiting presence of financial institutions on this market. Thank you very much.
Pascal Canfin 45:50
Thank you, we move to Lydia Pereira for EPP.
Lídia PEREIRA 45:57
Thank you very much chair and your colleagues and Mr. Vice President. While the war in Ukraine we heard it tonight. It’s outrageous. And we must be unbending in the defence of the Ukrainian sovereignty, and its citizens rights to choose their own future. But it’s also clear that the situation has changed in over the last two weeks. And the EU must get rid of its dependency on fossil fuels, while maintaining a well functioning energy market in order to reach strategic autonomy. In any case, to achieve it, we need to improve the energy interconnections and as you rightly mentioned briefly today between the Iberian Peninsula and the rest of European Union, and this shall be done not through gas pipelines, but that increase our fossil fuels dependency, but crucially through electrical connections. So Mr. Vice President, the increase of electricity interconnection capacities between France, Spain and Portugal is at least since February 2003. And I repeat 2003 as being a listed priority in the Council on guidelines for trans European energy networks. So Mr. Timmermans Lucas, in the eyes and tell us what concrete steps and decisions can we expect from the European Commission on this front? Thank you.
Pascal Canfin 47:29
Thank you very much. We moved to a Marek Paweł BALT
Marek Paweł BALT 47:42
Russia did not only attack Ukraine. Okay, now, Russia did not only attack Ukraine, but it also threatened Europe with nuclear arms and it attacked our energy security. That is why I’d like to appeal to the commission to support activities in order to take over the assets of Russian energy companies who finance the war, we need to do it to secure our energy security. Now my question to you now, situation of unstable supplies of gas and oil will there be an agreement by the Commission to finance investment that improved energy effectiveness of the current heat sources also, based on fossil fuels, such as coal by increasing cogeneration and trigeneration. Every country has its own specific city. That is why I invite you to Poland where you can, you can revert huge heat and heat plants in order to produce a heating for big cities. It means that co2 will be diminished thanks to such change. We can do it in a short time in order to have the right level of security. And before we construct the right number of green sources of energy.
Emma WIESNER 49:13
Thank you, Chairman. Thank you Mr. Timmermans for being here. It’s an event has thrown us into one of Europe’s greatest crisis in modern town. However, the climate crisis is also one of the major crisis not in the future generations in my generation. So and many of the solutions of the climate crisis are the same as the geopolitical crisis. So I 100% support you in that we need to stick to the Green Deal goals and the targets. But we also need to do what is necessary to end this war and that is stopped the imports of natural gas and oil from Russia, not in one year. It should be tomorrow. So your plan tomorrow should be to cut the imports of the gas tomorrow. But I will ask you is that the high energy prices affecting how would that affect our upcoming work? With the Green Deal, how will you keep the member states motivated and stick to the ambition level and raise the ambition level of the Green Deal? Will you look at will you review the impact assessments? And also do you believe that the latest PCI list that investing more money in the EU gas infrastructure will help us to reduce its dependency? And finally, last week, the IAEA pointed at large sources of bio energy unused in Europe that could help us replace gas. How will you utilise that to further encourage use of bio energy in Europe? Thanks.
Pascal Canfin 50:36
Thank you for EVP user specialists.
Nikos Androulakis 50:54
Thank you, Thank you, Chair. Mr. Vice President. Brutal aggression of Russia against Ukrainian proves as in at least two things. First, the energy independence from Russia is to achieve as soon as possible. Everyday we pay hundreds of millions for gas, oil and coal. We seek to reduce in the long term. But now we are increasingly contributing to the Russian war machine. What can we do immediately? Another worrying thing is behaviour of Russian military troops seizing personnel of nuclear power plants in Ukrainian, threatening the whole energy system, rather, active contamination of environment can take place at any moment. Moreover, hour after hour, Russian troops are approaching already to the third a nuclear power plant after Chernobyl and Zebadiah. What kind of European answer you think there should be?
Pascal Canfin 52:01
Thank you. So we moved to Maui to saw for the greens. See, it was almost your cue.
Marie TOUSSAINT 52:16
On Good afternoon, Commissioner. We must recognise that the European response to the Ukrainian crisis has been the right one. It has reaffirmed European unity supporting democracy and really holding upholding their European Green Deal objectives to continue but allow me to express some other points. This discourse is not new with the appeal to give up energy dependency, particularly on route and Russia, the inter collectiveness, fossil fuels, these are issues we’ve been talking about for years, we’ve had many good words on these. And we’ve had policies, investments and gas infrastructure, which is contributing, in fact, to maintain our dependency on fossil fuels have two questions, Commissioner. First, it’s not too late to revise the PCI list. Is it the project that she’ll be voting on our Wednesday? And to propose a list that’s 100% renewable? Is this something that you could do? Secondly, we’ve no today that will be at gas energy, nuclear energy, the aberration of having green energies in the taxonomy. When we really want to change our position. We have seen good solidarity, refusing gas coming from various different sources, including total, I think this is really something that we need to welcome for the climate.
Edina Tóth 54:08
Thank you, Chair. And thank you also, vice president Tim amounts for being here with us today. And I must say that I think your his statement from the beginning was very much on the spot, apart from military forces and new weapons. Europe’s fossil fuel dependency on Russia is one of the strongest assets. And I think the way you said it is absolutely clear. We need to be be independent and sustainable in the future. And this is the best way of making Russia weaker when it comes to the EU. Political Situation. The fit for 55 package is the solution, not only to the last week’s alarming IPCC report But also, as I mentioned to the energy security, and it must be further improved, I would say at least in three ways, we need to move faster in the range of packages such as the ETS read, and also the co2 cars to we need sharp drop in the ETS prices to just that, that we see now suggest that we need to strengthen the MSR and three, we must work can reconsider the taxonomy delegated acts on the fossil gas, I find that very natural. And therefore, I hope for tomorrow that we have good decisions from the Commission and that we will have a good message. But I would also of course, like to hear today what In addition, you are now planning to break out when it comes to the dependency on Russian for sale.
Pascal Canfin 55:54
. Thank you, thank you, we move to care more for ID.
Sylvia Limmer 56:08
And nothing less than so I’ve often been in the last two weeks, the EU member states have simply woken up from this dream of the green transition, it’s finally made clear that this green energy means that we’re not going to have enough energy or highly developed industrial societies. So this is simple, renewable, renewable energy, the criticism of fossil and coal. This is certainly made us more dependent on Russia. If we want to be independent, then we don’t want to have problems with the raw materials for batteries, we have to look at the 5050 55 package and completely renegotiate it. Because the price for energy is going to stimulate in inflation and our citizens can’t pay their bills at the moment. So all more renewables can be used in order to get out of the gas so faster and avoid what has gotten us into this problem in the first place.
Jadwiga Wiśniewska 57:35
Mr. Chair, we have are living in hard times war in Ukraine 100,000 People of all refugees find shelter in Poland every day 100,000 people he take care, you are an experienced politicians your history that he often quote, should find that also make you think that it’s time to build this energy security in Europe. We need to stop financing the regime of protein by giving up to north north streams. I know it’s an ambitious task, but it like ambitious tasks so much. How can we attain it? What should we do? Above all, we need to diversify the supplies of raw materials to Europe. This is a superior objective and the fundamental one, the package fit for 55. At all, could I in the situation of a war crisis in Ukraine, which is going to cause high food prices and an increase of inflation in Europe. It’s something complected completely unacceptable. People will not stand it there will be more energy poverty. Is this the aim of climate policy in Europe? Definitely not. What should we bet on Mr. Commissioner, we should focus on very firmly on cogeneration. We should support systemic heat heating plants. We should support the resources that are at our disposal today. We also need to reform ETS. Thank you.
Pascal Canfin 59:23
Can you afford EPP?
Radan KANEV 59:27
Thank you, Chair. Mr. Vice President. I think we all agree on the need to counter the aggressor in Ukraine. And obviously we all agree that our top priority shall be Energy Independence and Security. I’m happy that we also agree that we need to increase ambition on renewables on energy efficiency on alternative fuels. And yet a very important question stay spending and that is why should ETS expand in the present situation, both ETS one and ETs two ETS provides for controlled increase of the prices in order to incentivize new technologies. Now we have skyrocketing prices, why should we increase them further. And furthermore, we need our steel and aluminium in war times we need the deadly sea bomb is great risk of provoking tensions with our nursing isolating Crusher, increases prices of housing and transport in times of record inflation is going I’m sorry, against common sense. So I say a big part of the Green Deal is most important today more important today than it was yesterday. But another part doesn’t really make sense.
Pascal Canfin 1:00:58
Thank you, we moved to sng Nicholas on the Rockies.
Nikos Androulakis 1:01:07
once again, an external danger is increasing our common misgivings the legal and barbaric barbarous invasion of the Ukraine shows that our security depends on energy autonomy, and autonomous Europe should have a common foreign policy and defence and should be independent from the point of view of energy. We have to create strategic reserves and infrastructure and pipelines such as, and we have not, we should not depend on imported natural gas, we should save gas and should use renewables more faster. The more we use renewables, and we use them in our energy mix, we will be more resilient evisa a crisis. That’s why we have to upgrade the national grid and the cross border interconnections using new investment measures. And using the recovery fund money is a priority are joined policies to combat energy inequalities and energy poverty that has increased recently for tomorrow, the the average value of electricity in Greece is 327 euros per megawatt hour. With maximum price, 600 euros. This is a crisis that no country can face alone. That’s why we need solidarity, the investment measures and instruments to face increases with measures in order to alleviate the weight of our most vulnerable. citizens. Thank you.
Maria Soraya Rodriguez Ramos 1:02:52
Chairman on thank you to the Vice President as well, all of the dangers for the planets, which led to the Green Deal are still valid. And so the Green Deal is, of course, the solution. But we’ve got a new scenario and no with criminal war, which is turning into a massacre of the Ukrainian people. And this means that the whole idea of energy supply and on food is going to be affected. So we’re going to have a new situation to focus on. And we’re also going to have to think about the security of energy supply. And we need to draw these things together. And here I’d like to the following will the commission give us a proposal with our shedule or a timeline, which might involve modifying our objectives? I think that they should go up we should increase the amount of renewables we have. We need to look at interconnections as well, electrical ones, but also for gas as well, perhaps, because right now, gas is not the solution for the Green Deal. But the commission has said that it could be a transition but it can’t continue to be Russian gas because that is financing buying that is financing the massacre of the Ukrainian people in the Iberian Peninsula, we can provide and gas, liquefied natural gas but we don’t have the interconnector to allow us to do it. Some things need to be looked at again. And is the commission going to give us a new proposal which will bring these two
Jerzy BUZEK 1:04:41
together? Well as for the left
Mick Wallace 1:04:48
Thanks, Pascal, Vice President studied by scientists for global responsibility together with conflict and environment observatory, commissioned by the left group last year are estimated conservatively that the carbon footprint of EU military expenditure is approximately 24 point 8 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent annually. This is roughly the same as the amount of co2 emitted by 14 million cars every year. Member states are supposed to regularly report our military greenhouse gas emissions to the UNFCCC door to national reports and a combined report for the EU. But this is voluntary, reliable data on military emissions is more crucial than ever at a time when military expenditure is increasing in Europe at a frightening rate. The E is climate defence roadmap. It’s for the EU and its member states to continuously show leadership in international climate and environment, Environment Policy and actions the EU will work towards including defence aspects in the national determined contributions. By one question by Mr. Timmons, do you support the inclusion of military missions in NDCs? Thank you very much.
Pascal Canfin 1:06:07
Thank you very much. And the last speaker for the second round at the network for non attached.
Edina Tóth 1:06:14
Thank you chair, Dear Mr. T Mama’s Europe has faced with high energy prices many times in the past. Today due to the war in Ukraine, the price rise happens again, why green transformation of the energy system is underway, it is clear that we need to design a fair and forward looking response. But what is the he was response? One day, you say member states have to give a call a few weeks later you call that taboo as EU six Russian gas exit, I think we need a more coherent climate policy, we need to move to Virts renewables. However, we cannot step back from natural gas from one day to another as we need to secure energy supply, it is of utmost importance to acknowledge the role of nuclear energy tool. And my question is the following based on the current critical situation, do you consider to provide additional climate funds for the member states? And how would you achieve that no citizen will pay higher energy prices. Thank you.
Pascal Canfin 1:07:24
For your
Frans Timmermans 1:07:25
yours. Thank you very much. A lot of questions about the the social cohesion. And let me let me be very clear, because there’s also I’ll combine it with with the questions on on the emissions trading system. I’m a bit surprised that there’s still the stories about manipulation in the emissions trading system. We’ve analysed this. And also it’s been independently analysed there is no indication of manipulation. And by the way, who would have manipulated that in the last couple of weeks when the price is going down? Who would do that? This is simply a response to what’s happening in the market and the ETS is functioning. It is a functioning system, it has functioned. And we believe we believe that the introduction of an ETS two system is also the best way to protect the most vulnerable. And I think since since we will be with you in a very, very complicated discussion about this because it is complicated. I think chair, we might we might share with you the analyses we’ve made internally in the Commission on ETs to and what the what the instruments are we could use with the Social Fund to protect the 20% most vulnerable people in Europe who are responsible for 9% of the emissions. And I think I think at least if you have our analysis, we can have a baps a better informed discussion about whether this is the way to go or not. Because I believe we will have to take some decisions, there is an increase of emissions in transport, there isn’t a lack of decrease of emissions in in, in the built environment, we absolutely need to tackle that. And as I’ve always said, if you have a better solution, please let us know if you would be willing to analyse a solution and then perhaps we can come to collectively to better decisions. But I want to put my argument fully on the table with all the background in it because I think we need to overcome that we create an ideological discussion about yes or no ETS. I want to be as practical as possible and especially want to be able to prove that this is the best way to compensate the 20% most vulnerable citizens in our society and compensate Before the introduction, I already have the ETS two system. But it’s then up to you to decide whether you were the How to way arguments, I hope, I hope this could be helpful to look into this, this issue on the interconnections, we need to speed up the interconnection of electrical interconnection between the Iberian Peninsula and the rest of Europe. I mean, if you have an excess of production of renewables, and you can’t bring them to other customers in Europe, that’s a shame. That’s a shame. That’s not what we need now. So, so indeed, this is something we will be promoting, obviously. Now, also, in terms of coal, let me be very clear, there is future in coal, simply not just because it creates emissions that are completely unacceptable, there is no economic future in coal. If you compare the price of renewables to the price of coal, it makes no sense. But at the same time, in this extraordinary situation we are in there are scenarios thinkable, that member states will not want to use gas at the same level in the transition, and then would be stuck a bit longer with coal. But if that is combined with a much swifter introduction of renewables, for climate, that can still be a good solution, but we will have to look at every individual situation.
Now, of course, the the high energy prices has a huge political impact, because this is something nobody can avoid and everybody is, is is is touched by just filling up your car or, or looking at the new contracts you get for the heating of your houses, etc. It is. It is a politically, incredibly complicated situation. And we have to try and put our member states in the best possible position to address it with all the instruments and all the flexibility we can provide within the instruments. I I don’t have the impulse to change the PCI list. Let me be very clear about this. By the way, the PCI list is also something we negotiated with parliament, it’s parliament who asked us to grandfather the gas projects, or am I mistaken here? I think it is. And there is some logic in this we have a lack of interconnectors also in the gas that we will need in the intermediary period. And if you can then make these investments in such a way that this infrastructure is suitable for other densities. In other words, for hydrogen in the future, it is an investment also in the future energy system. Hydrogen will be a big part of Europe’s future energy system as I think ammonia as well, so and bio bio methane, which which was also mentioned that some of you, so we need to, there is a huge potential for more bio energy. And we will also come out with some ideas about that. Tomorrow. Yes, we need to find answers on the new nuclear threat. We’re working very closely with the International Atomic Energy Agency to monitor what is happening in Ukraine. The completely irresponsible behaviour of Putin and his cronies puts us all at danger. But also, that’s the only slightly redeeming factor, it puts him and his country, also enormous the danger is, especially in this time of year with predominantly Eastern winds, he would hurt himself and his country in a tremendous way. He is a huge mistake that but risks are being taken. And I hope we can, together with the International Atomic Energy Agency provide the right level of protection. And I can understand that you say, Well, are you actually now serious about this transition? Are you going to speed it up? Well wait for tomorrow, I think we will. But we will need your help. We will need parliament to support this. Now. Of course, we need to reduce very quickly our dependency on Russian energy and we can do that. But some of it is not. Overnight. We will in some areas need a couple of years together there. And by the way, this is not just because because the German Chancellor came out very clearly on this today. But the reality is that there’s quite a number of our member states who would get into real trouble. If overnight all the energy would no longer be provided from us with gas we can manage more or less. But if I stopped overnight, it would be it It would be a problem. So we need to make sure in doing this, we don’t do more harm to ourselves than we do to put in. I mean, some will call this realpolitik. I think this is a common sense, we shouldn’t disrupt our own society now that we need our society to be as united as possible. And let me let me be very clear. Well, I can two things I want to say about Poland because it was addressed. So clearly, I have seldom felt so emotional. Then the moment when I saw the Polish people receiving the refugees at the border with tea, taking them into the homes
incredible, incredible and and that makes me a proud European to see those Europeans taking care of other Europeans who have been bombed out of their houses. And Poland, Poland deserves a huge calm, and full solidarity. refugees need to be accepted in all member states, without buts or ifs just accepted, not long procedures accepted, they are fleeing for their lives. But the second remark I want to make also Poland has sent more than one trillions Wati in the last years to Russia for energy. So it’s not that it’s just one or two member states. It’s it’s a more systemic problem, we need to address also Poland, all of us. And I think this is something that we that we that we have a you have a you can say no, but it’s the facts. I’m sorry, the can’t dispute the facts, I’m afraid. But we have to make sure that we all of us move quickly in the right direction. And I think the political support and the societal support for this is clear on the military greenhouse gas emissions. I’ve been talking to NATO about this. But now we have other priorities and talking to NATO a month ago, where the strong willingness also for NATO member states to look at both the threats for our security coming from the climate crisis, but also at their own carbon footprint in operating in a military. This is it’s not my invention. It’s NATO itself that comes up with these ideas supported by NATO member states. So I think also there we will have a closer cooperation. But most importantly, of course, in the security domain, it is analysing very precisely where the security threats are linked to the climate crisis, which I believe is something that will increase in the years to come.
Pascal Canfin 1:17:41
Thank you. So we move to the last round of questions. We still have 10 Members, we are running 10 minutes late. So please, stick to the one minute we start with EPP minus Piercy.
Maria Spyraki 1:17:57
Thank you, Chair for giving me the floor. And thank you very much executive vice president’s fine time to be with us. I will be very brief starting with the joint European response to the energy prices that we all need. And according to the amount, maybe there is a part of RF that will be used as an instrument, this specific instrument in order to start tackling the issue of prices, if you can give us a sense, how will it work? And my second question is, if you in the Commission are planning to do some changes in the guidelines of the state aid issue, that they are already in the pipeline, concerning the the acceleration of deployment of renewables and also the acceleration in the further support to important projects of common interest? On the interconnection, I will give you an example. It is the electricity in the connection between Greece and Egypt. Thank you very much, Mr. Vice President.
Pascal Canfin 1:18:52
Thank you for Mohammed CHAHIM .
Mohammed CHAHIM 1:18:56
Thank you very much. Thank you very much executive vice president. So in conclusion, we need to transform our energy system, we need to invest in energy efficiency in renewables, improve energy security, improve interconnectivity. So we need a more efficient, sustainable, a better connected and fairer energy system. So ladies and gentlemen, we have that it’s called the European Green Deal. And the owl politic also means to look further than two or three next winters. What will we do with the current energy source that we have? In the Netherlands we say, Do not throw away your old shoes before you have new ones, but we have a plan for that as well. That will come tomorrow. The only regret I have is that we could have started with decarbonisation much earlier it would have placed us in a much better position, especially in relation to Putin. I wish you the best of luck. The long to decarbonisation the road through decarbonisation is long it will be we will meet some bumps, but please don’t panic. We have a good plan. We have good leaders, and we will be stronger after this crisis. Thank you very much.
Pascal Canfin 1:20:00
Thank you for renewJan Huitema
Jan Huitema 1:20:03
and Grella fortune and dunk of Allah Kuma Sarris, the hail Alvin Sprague biography much. I thank you Chair shot. So this evening, we’re speaking about energy. Are we not over estimating the possibilities of the fact that there might be food shortages. I’m thinking of all the people in Ukraine, people who live in the countryside, people who are now displaced. They are not going to have any cereals, there’s not going to be the seeds for the fields, there’s going to be food shortage, a third of the cereal imports of the entire world come from Ukraine. And if that is not available, what’s going to happen? We could run the difficulty that people aren’t going to be able to harvest in Ukraine, what are we going to do in the EU? We have to see our experience from North Africa, perhaps and improve? Yes, we should use less artificial fertiliser. However, we have to think punished and find alternatives. There’s organic material available that we could use. And but some of the we can’t use because of our policy.
Jutta Paulus 1:21:32
Thank you, Chair. And thank you, executive vice president Timmermans for being here today and also for your powerful words yesterday evening on German TV. I really appreciate it. I have very concrete questions. What will the commission do to support member states in accelerating the Green Deal and accelerating the bullet of renewables? For example, will they be a template for the implementation of the active consumers rights from the clean energy package? Will there’ll be a fast track procedure for renewables and efficiency support schemes in DG competition, where the new renewables law injure of Germany will have to wait until the end of year for being approved? That is not up to date? Very sorry. Will there be an IPC AI for a gigawatt factory for photovoltaics in Europe so that we don’t exchange the dependency from Russian fossil fuels? With a dependency from Chinese solar panels? Will there be guidelines on biodiversity and renewables for member states so that lawsuits will no longer slow down the ramping up of renewables and permitting? All those questions would be very dear to me. Thank you very much.
Pascal Canfin 1:22:38
Thank you. There is no speaker for ID and we move to Anna Zalewska for ECR.
Anna Zalewska 1:22:53
incident Vice President, you said that Europe should be resistant and should be balanced. That is not we’ve got war. And we’ve got crazy energy prices that change, not week over week, but day, over day, we’ve got absolute economic chaos, no prospects and the green and fit for 55, which has been structured against the backbone of North Stream one and two, not stream. One doesn’t exist anymore, not stream two is still there. As you rightly quoted, Chancellor Schultz said he would not give up imports of fossil fuels from Russia in spite of what we he said from our colleagues from Germany, we need to do some serious analysis. We are talking about the future of Europeans let’s not say to Europeans that we are going to have a stable economy based on the wind farms, we need to take a second look on at carbon at a coal we need to look at coal as an element that allows us to use modern technologies. European Commission turns a blind eye to it.
Maria da Graça Carvalho 1:24:15
Thank you very much. Dear vice chair and the chair the vice president Timmermans Sanko. For being here with us. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is should not be a motive to delay the application of Green Deal on the opposite we need to accelerate the our efforts to block clean and affordable energy renewables and energy efficiency. However, we need to put a lot of emphasis on security of supply and for security of supply you need a strong internal market and very happy that you have already said that you want to increase the level of coverage on the interconnections in Europe. So I have a concrete question to you. One of the important for my country. Portugal as colleagues have said already today from Portugal and Spain are the interconnections through the the pyramids between Spain, France, and that electricity gas and in the future hydrogen is the commission willing to review and including in the future in the PCI list this project as projects of common interest. Thank you very much.
Pascal Canfin 1:25:30
Thank you, we move to Nicolas Contreras Casares for S&D.
Nicolás GONZÁLEZ CASARES 1:25:38
Raphael has gotten his procedure taken off he has. Thank you, Chair, thank you, Vice President Timmermans for coming today. We’re all very worried. And thank you for organising this energy debate to envy as well. I think the winds are stronger the wind, wind and sun are stronger than put in his hand. And I think this should also strengthen our policies. I firmly believe that moving forward in renewables, increasing our autonomy, and doing so will make better in the future when it comes to energy and respect for the planet. But it’s also true that we do have issues we have issues telling our citizens that as we take that road, they’re gonna have to pay more for energy. So we have a short term problem right now with this crisis that needs responses. And I think tomorrow is a very important day executive vice president to look at what responses we have, so that citizens aren’t seeing energy prices claim even more everyday, particularly electricity, I think we need to really disconnect gas and electricity prices. That’s vital. And it’s not just poor citizens, but also small and medium sized enterprises, which also needs support. I could just like to say one more thing about the PCI list. I don’t think it’s the worst possible
Andreas Glück 1:27:18
Thank you very much. And because Pascal was speaking so good English, I will not speak in German, I will speak in English as well. So first of all, thank you for your strong words. I have to admit I we are afraid at least I am. But fear is a bet advisor. So we must think and then we have to go for the action. So my question Do we have to adjust our feet for 55 package? I’m a surgeon, I see things from the practical side, we can just kick something out of our portfolio if we don’t know how we can substitute. So no hasty, reIation reaction, but thinking three examples. We have to be stronger when it comes to renewables, storage and smart grids, of course, as well as infrastructure in gas and electricity. But other examples, sebum for example, the world holds together at this moment. Do we really want to take our allies with sebum in this situation? Now? Question, then next point Energy Efficiency Directive on one hand, because of lack and foretells, we certainly can raise our level of ambition at the moment. But on the other hand, if you can substitute coal through gas, maybe we have to lower the level of ambition at the same time. So do you believe we need some sort of a moratorium not to weaken Green Deal, not to lower the ambition everywhere, but to adjust it, and even to make it maybe stronger in some fields here?
Pascal Canfin 1:28:41
We need to TMS for the greens.
Tilly Metz 1:28:46
Thank you very much the chair and also thank you the executive vice president to be with us this evening. I was also watching you here yesterday on the German TV. Very good. Thank you for that. So my my concern is really that the Russian invasion of Ukraine is being used really as a pretext to attack boosts by a diversity strategy and the Farm to Fork strategy and also their related targets. However, abandoning those targets would be totally counterproductive in order to wean ourselves off of artificial inputs, which are destroying our soul and our agro systems, and therefore, in the productivity, we need more than ever and urgently to transition to more sustainable ways of farming. productivity gains are threatened by the collapse in VOD biodiversity, including pollinators and our solar system. A great Mater study shows that the agro ecological system are more productive than the conventional one. That’s why I really want to hear you I know you were speaking about it when I came in in the room, but we urge you to stick to the farm to fork strategy and to the by diversity strategy, as they are essential in terms of Acting to Save the climate than the nature and also allowing us To be more independent in terms of food security, and keeping those target is the only responsible thing to do. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Pascal Canfin 1:30:10
Again question of fairness. And then the last speaker is Catherine CHABAUD
Catherine CHABAUD 1:30:33
me. Yes, we can. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Timmons for your very strong statements, I have a couple of questions and a point to make. I was working in the Indian Ocean at some time ago, and a vessel broke down and we had to sail on wind energy and sun energy. If you’d told me at the start, that I wouldn’t have fossil fuels on this world trip, I wouldn’t have set off. I managed to because I was convinced it was possible. But also because I was very careful with my energy usage. So and the plan that you’re proposing tomorrow, nobody is talking about energy sobriety energy say, I think this is a very strong message for our citizens. Second question, something else that I learned from the seas, the EU today is a vessel which needs to sail on the energies that it has, and with renewable energies, I think we also need to try to develop the energy we have around us, this is also a message to convey particularly to my isolated territories, will you be also talking about energy mix in your plan, thank
Frans Timmermans 1:31:54
you. There’s only one thing that can get us into trouble in the years to come and that is if we are divided. It is not for nothing that put in has invested 20 years and an incredible amount of money to divide us and how our surprise must’ve been and and and and sad to see that all this investment has gone to not because of his own behaviour. And I believe we also when we see the future of 55 the Green Deal, I will do my utmost to make sure we are not divided and and trying to address many of the issues which come from different parts as best as best I can. Some of the answers but many, many, many, many, many questions that I cannot answer. Now some of the answers will be in our document tomorrow, some will need to be elaborated as of then we will in repower EU come with some ideas also in terms of how we work more closely with our with our neighbourhood, we will need huge amounts of green hydrogen in the future that we cannot produce ourselves. We don’t want to be in another situation of depending too much on one or a few energy suppliers. So the fact that green hydrogen is going to be a global commodity, also developed in large parts of Africa and elsewhere is a huge opportunity for us to diversify, to make sure to make sure we also help Africa develop itself. I think I think green hydrogen and ammonia are going to be tremendous opportunity on the basis of very cheap solar energy and off offshore wind. Of course, it’s always easy to say we should have gone made this transition earlier. That’s right. But we are where we are. And we need to make the best of the situation we’re in now. And I think we can do that I I bow to young hotma and his analysis of Farm to Fork is absolutely right. I only only mentioned one small element he is right. We need to put a young farmers, especially a young farmers in a position to use high tech in a much higher level because that is what agriculture needs everywhere in the world. And we need to spread that message also beyond Europe. He is right that I was listening last night to a farmer Dutch farmer. His name is housing car, not how to map and if you have the time any of you he isn’t he’s sent by his Ukrainian colleagues to spread the message to us if you have time, I would I have been able to find the time yet but I will speak to him this week. And I would encourage you to speak to he will come with a very powerful message about what is happening in Ukraine and there are serious risks if the farmers in Ukraine cannot start to sow the crop. Now in the next couple of weeks. There will be a problem with Food shortages, not so much for the European Union, but many other customers of Ukraine also in the developing world, where they have high levels of birth rates and where they need desperately, the food production out of Ukraine and Russia, by the way, but especially Ukraine, so so there is a problem there, Mr. Mr. Mr. Hydromat, has right. And I would encourage you to listen to the message, and then we can see together what we can do to address that issue. Miss Powell has had many, many questions I hope will be addressed. She is right, we need to look at procedures. She is right, we need to speed them up. Also, Federal Minister hubback has been making this point to me almost on a daily basis. And he is right. If the energy transition, Germany’s investing, I think, north of 200 billion in the energy transition in the coming years, that money needs to be spent, be able to spend and you need the people to build that you need the permits to build that you need the facilities to build that. And we need to facilitate that more than we have in the past. And I will really engage with all national governments that want to speed that up to make it possible for them and to make sure we apply the European rules in the most swift way, or else we change the European rules, and many of the questions you asked, will hopefully be answered. Also, in our document tomorrow, the Iberian interconnectors I’ve already said that are extremely porous they have they have to, again because it’s I find it unsafe, insupportable that you have an axis of production of renewables, that cannot find its way into the rest of Europe, because there’s no connection. That is, that doesn’t make any sense. So we really, we really highlight that as well.
I think we don’t have the luxury of having a moratorium, frankly, we need to proceed. But we also need to adapt where we need to adapt, if there are things we need to change to, to change direction or to change intensity, we need to do that the concept of Soviet energetic, what I would say is, it’s like with with with our food, we throw away more than 20% of our food, that should change, we throw away a lot of our energy as well, that should also change the so much energy is lost because of the bad quality of housing. So much energy is lost because of old machines, all procedures, there is so much to be gained in energy efficiency in the years to come. And that is also a way of reducing our dependency on imported fossil fuels. And we need to pick that up with speed Finally, on but this is more of the international aspect. There are so many especially small island states that could provide for their own energy through solar and and wind, especially with the new technologies, foldable turbines, etc, that are impervious to erratic weather patterns. They are paying incredibly high prices already for fossil fuels because of the remoteness of where they are. They could be completely self sufficient if we help them in the coming years with renewable energy. And it is a good opportunity for European industry that is world leading in especially wind technology and becoming again world leading in photovoltaic technology. But let me end where I started in my final introduction. Trends, it is of the utmost importance that we are not divided. And even if we have big political differences in this Parliament’s between between countries, between political groups, but we don’t have the luxury to let that cripple us in the years to come. Thank you.
Pascal Canfin 1:39:00
Thank you very much. So a lot to see tomorrow in the communication and the next NV meeting is on the 14th of March on the IPCC report. Thank you very much.
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